People, tag your fandoms right.

[auroracloud]

A regular pet peeve: why do people write New Who fic with only New Who characters etc. tagged on AO3, with no sign in the summary or the tags that there are in fact any Classic Who elements present, and then tag it both with Doctor Who (2005) and Doctor Who (1963) (ie. Classic Who)?

There's a reason those fandom tags are separate on the archive. If it's truly a crossover fic for both the new and classic series, by all means tag it with both. But trust me, when I'm looking in the Classic Who fandom tag, it's not because I want to read Ten/Rose or Twelve/Clara. It's really, really NOT.

It's pretty ridiculous that Ten/Rose is actually in the top ten relationship tags for Classic Who. Some of them might be legitimately there, for some crossover reasons, but based on the samples I've seen when I'm just trying to find new Classic Who content, the majority is most likely not.

I know I can filter tags to exclude things I don't want, but I shouldn't have to start my browsing by filtering out stuff that belong in the fandom tag in the first place.

Maybe I'll soon start leaving peeved comments in those fics, except that a) I don't want to increase their hit and comment count, and b) the sort of people who tag in the wrong fandoms probably aren't people I want to get into an argument with. So I'll just continue fuming on my own.

This is where I like the way Teaspoon is organized by era. People don't tend to stick random Twelve/Clara into the Second Doctor or Fifth Doctor categories unless it's really and truly a crossover.

Comments

[auroracloud]

Hmm, while the existence of the "Doctor Who" tag and the "Doctor Who and Related Fandoms" tags does make things more confusing, I always found it clear enough that the 2005 and 1963 tags referred to different eras of the show. Even back when the only thing I knew about Classic Who was that it existed, that this Tom Baker chap seemed to be a big deal, and that it apparently featured characters called Romana and Ace. I guess I didn't think it would be so confusing to others. I always interpreted it as the writers being so attention-hungry they'd put their fic also in tags where it doesn't belong, just like some people on social media will use popular hashtags to get attention to what they're saying. I could be wrong, of course, it was just my immediate assumption because it seemed like a thing that people do. And maybe some people just think they have to tag Classic Who if they as much as mention a name from it somewhere in the text of the fic.

But, I'm wary to post about things like this in comments to a fic, because some people can react really badly to any kind of seemingly negative thing said to them. (Though obviously I'd phrase it more politely than here, and assume good intents.) Also, if I were to do that, I'd probably have to read the fic to make sure I'm correct when I say it doesn't have Classic Who elements in it, and I... really dislike those ships. No offense meant to anyone who likes them, but I don't.

The other thing people do is just to tag with 'Doctor Who' which is even worse, because then it doesn't show up in anything beneath the meta-tag, & if people are, say, following a Classic Who feed here, then they won't see the work at all.

Oh yes, that's very frustrating as well! Gets really confusing when you try to figure out which tags to follow so you actually get the stuff you want to see. My own solution has been to not use any of the upper-level tags, only either the 2005 or 1963 tag.

[thisbluespirit]

Yes, some of it is probably that, too, but I think there's a lot of genuine confusion about AO3 tags and people not understanding that they simply don't work the way that tumblr tags too. (One correct tag will get you where you need to be and the linking up is done manually, but people are v used to having to tag every ship six ways to get it in the tag.)

My own solution has been to not use any of the upper-level tags, only either the 2005 or 1963 tag.

That's the right way to do it! (I mean, insofar as there is a right way with AO3. Use all the relevant sub-tags that apply; it'll be in the meta-tags above without you doing anything anyway.)

[auroracloud]

That's a good point. It's a bit hard for me to notice how people from sites like Tumblr might be confused by tagging systems that I find totally logical, because I'm usually the one getting confused by Tumblr-based tags. I have so much trouble working out the ship names people mean sometimes!

Still, it's so confusing when people tag the fandoms wrong - because Classic Who is such a smaller fandom that when a non-negligible percentage of the Ten/Rose and Twelve/Clara writers tag their works in the Classic Who fandom, it clutters the fandom a lot and makes it so much harder to find any of the stuff I'm looking for. Of course I can filter, but it's frustrating when I first have to filter out the stuff that doesn't belong there in the first place. Maybe at some point I will make it my mission to point this out politely and nicely to people...

Yay, I'm glad I've been using the fandom tags correctly! It seemed the most logical like that. I've noticed that they do automatically end up under the meta-tag above, since often in exchanges some people will use the "Doctor Who" tag so it shows up in the fandoms as well, but also contains works that have only been tagged under the 2005 or 1963 tags.

[thisbluespirit]

Oh, it's annoying! Even more so when everyone keeps sticking them in the wrong fields and using both / and & because they think they're alternative ways of saying the same thing. /o\

But I can see why users who are only used to tumblr might get confused and not know that it works very differently elsewhere - so many social media sites do operate on hashtags and with very little moderation (like on Teaspoon) or the wranglers on AO3.


since often in exchanges some people will use the "Doctor Who" tag so it shows up in the fandoms as well, but also contains works that have only been tagged under the 2005 or 1963 tags.

Yes, it's quite handy when people do that in exchanges! You can just click on the one tag to see all the goodies.

But, yes, this is the tag structure for Doctor Who, which is why it works like that (you're just gradually filtering down with each sub-tag, barring people who Don't Know How To Tag (a popular tag on AO3 with many variants, lol), via the tag landing page. (I do love tag landing pages!)

ETA: How Do I Tag aka a cry for help from many confused users of AO3. :-D

[auroracloud]

I don't mind using both the & and / if the fic is clearly exploring both the shippy and gen/friendship aspects of the characters' relationships. But yeah, sometimes people just put in both when they only mean one. I often ship characters who have a strong friendship in canon, and sometimes I actually just want to read about that friendship, and then it's hard to find fics that are actually about that when people tag both just in case!

ETA: How Do I Tag aka a cry for help from many confused users of AO3. :-D

Haha, that's a lot of confusion and consternation! :-D To be fair, I also find it hard to choose the right additional tags to describe my fics beyond the fandom, characters and relationships. Thinking up enticing and accurate tags is hard! But I try to be careful about the more clear-cut tag categories, like is this actually in this fandom.

[thisbluespirit]

Yes, the trouble is, either you have fairly moderated tags and categories, but you can't add to them (or not easily, without asking the mods), or you have AO3 where you can add them all yourself, but so can everyone else and do it Wrong and Annoyingly.

There was once, for reasons, a "The Avengers - Ambiguous Fandom" tag. People used it, even though it was basically tagging your work "help I don't know whether this is an American Movie/comic book thing or British cult spy thing featuring Emma Peel goddess". (It's been tidied up now, but that is people and tagging for you.)

[auroracloud]

or you have AO3 where you can add them all yourself, but so can everyone else and do it Wrong and Annoyingly.

People! People always ruin things!

a "The Avengers - Ambiguous Fandom" tag

Oh dear, that is precious!

[ysilme]

I'm not familiar enough with tumblr to be certain, but this seems very plausible. In my main fandom, the Tolkienverse, it's very easy to spot which writer is coming from tumblr and tagging accordingly (and not very helpfully) versus those coming from other platforms and archives, and it can be rather confusing even to find fic or find out what kind of fic this is. At least for us, it's easier insofar as seeing people doing the tumblr tagging are most likely to write movie fandom.
Apart from hopefully tagging sensibly, I'm using something some people do in those archives where tags aren't available, which is writing a kind of header in the chapter notes and stating there what source was used, or if it's a mix, which often happens (for example, I write mainly book canon, but sometimes use some visual influences from the movies).
But having it done in the way you're describing it for Doctor Who would seriously annoy me, too.

[thisbluespirit]

Yes, it's frustrating but it's also clearly not instinctive to people who are used to tags being used across social media rather than specifically for cataloguing and finding things.