Comments on Ascension of the Cybermen (newest Doctor Who episode)

[auroracloud]

I watched the latest Doctor Who episode, Ascension of the Cybermen, the first part of the two-part finale. Comments ahead, full of spoilers for the episode.



I have to say, I found this episode underwhelming. The only part that had me truly excited was the last few seconds of it, when Sacha Dhawan's Master appeared again - and now I'll have to wait a week to see what he's up to.

I was intrigued by the Brendan guy and what on earth is going on with him. A few separate thoughts about that:
- his revival after being shot at and falling off the cliff was just like Captain Jack reviving back in the day when we saw him die and revive a lot. At least when it was convenient to have him gasping dramatically. (He also seemed to manage entirely quiet revivals when it was plot-wise useful.)
- the clock seemed suspicious, makes me think of the pocket watches of Chameleon-arched Humans
- maybe he's the Timeless Child?

But I really wish they had found some way to tie it to the main plot already in this episode. It felt weirdly like hopping between two entirely different stories.

I usually like Cybermen stories - I personally find them to be one of the most effective and chilling recurrent monsters in Doctor Who when done well, perhaps because there's an element of them being a lot more believable than e.g. Daleks. But somehow I wasn't as drawn into this one as I hoped. Though we spent quite a lot of time with the human guest characters, I didn't feel we got to know them properly. And a lot of the time it seemed to me characters were doing what was plot-wise convenient rather than what made sense. Like why did Graham and what's-her-name go randomly exploring somewhere deep in the ship with just the two of them while aware it's a huge Cyber carrier? (Also, it's a huge Cyber carrier in a former warzone - were we meant to be surprised that it contained countless Cybermen waiting to be woken up? I wasn't, definitely.)

And I somehow had trouble believing that Yaz and Graham thought it was a great idea to take the humongous ship, filled with live Cybermen and the Ashad Cyber-dude with his Cyberion (sp?), to that one last place where humans might still get to safety. They're obstinate and optimistic, yes, but I would think it'd give them a pause to risk the entire universe like that just to save their own skins. Granted, I don't know what other options there existed, but it's not like they took any time to find out.

I am looking forward to the next episode, though, because with the Master and Gallifrey, there will hopefully be interesting stuff ahead, even if I'm not going to expect Chibnall to come up with a crystal-clear script with perfect pacing and plotting. And judging by the title of the next episode, we're finally going to find out what the whole Timeless Child deal is. I'm not going to form any expectations as to whether I'll like it or not, but I'm curious to learn what's been cooking up and what will be done with it.

Also, to return to the Cybermen, I did enjoy the design of Ashad and his fellow Cybermen - they were more rugged than we're used to in the new series, and projected strength and danger, not just polished steel and sleek tech.

Loved the music in this episode. Seems like there's a new Cybermen theme, I liked it.

I wonder if Jack is going to appear in the next episode. And what about the Ruth Doctor? I think she might just as well be left to a future season to discover, but we'll see!

I'm also wondering if all the companions are going to both make it through the finale and stay with the Doctor afterwards. There have been some hints that they might not all continue travelling for very long. I do hope they all survive, though, I like them all.

I do love that Jodie Whittaker's Doctor has meant business this season. She's tough and clever and imperfect and she's got layers. I feel like in S11 we only saw glimpses of what could have been, because the scripts were kind of timid in exploring her character - it might, of course, have been deliberate in a way that'll become clearer when we see the big picture form. But anyway, this season hasn't held back, and I love that. She's the highlight of even otherwise lacklustre episodes - not that there have been many, I've actually enjoyed most of the stories this season. I didn't get around to commenting on the previous two properly, but I liked them both, even if they weren't flawless.

Anyway, looking forward to the finale, and hoping that with all it's promising to tie up, it'll be more exciting than this episode was. I'm not expecting it to tie up everything perfectly because that rarely happens, but I hope it'll have me excited.

How did you all find this episode? Feel free to share comments and discuss, whether you agree with me or not!

Comments

[fucktheg0ds]

I was very surprised to discover that this was the second-to-last episode of the series. It's gone so fast!

I too am wondering if all the companions will survive. I suspect not, and I'm okay with that, as long as it's done well.

The Brendon guy was very curious. Agreed about wishing his story was tied to the main plot, but I guess the next episode will reveal all. His Jack-like revival was definitely a surprise.

As soon as Gallifrey showed up I was like, "The Master's going to pop up right... about... now." And his entrance was fun, he was right about that.

Based on one or two interviews, I don't think Jack will be back this series, but if he does show up in the finale I'll be delighted - especially since he was the one with the warning about the Lone Cyberman after all. Ruth, on the other hand, I suspect will return.

[auroracloud]

I had managed to catch up on the fact these were going to be the last episodes, but yeah, it's gone by fast. The seasons are shorter now than they used to be, I guess because the episodes are slightly longer, and two two-parters in ten episodes means it's only eight stories.

I don't want companion deaths. I'm still hurt by Bill and don't want to feel that again. I just want more modern companions to leave because they decide they've had enough adventure for now and want to return to normal life, rather than by being forced out. I hope that'll be the case with whichever of these companions might leave at the end of / after this season. I suspect some, at least, will leave.

I didn't properly manage to make the Master connection before he actually showed up - I was still processing Gallifrey. But I'm often not that great at picking up stuff while watching an episode, at least if we're doing fast-paced reveals. It's like my mind already gets so busy it doesn't have time to go ahead. But I was happy to be surprised, in this case! And it's not like I wasn't expecting the Master to pop up in the finale at some point. I just hadn't got as far as predicting when he would (though the end of the first part is the likeliest spot, come to think of it).

Curious to see which, if any, other characters will return!

[unfeathered]

I'm so glad someone else felt this way! Underwhelmed was definitely my word. I spent most of it trying to work out what the hell was going on (with both storylines) and where and when were they and how this fitted in with timelines of other 'future of mankind' stories, and found myself (again) really not caring about any of the characters.

I really wish this season was more consistent. There have been a couple of episodes I've *loved*, but the rest I'm still extremely 'meh' about. I'm still hoping I'll enjoy them more on rewatch, but so far have been unable to come up with the desire *to* rewatch them! :-(

[auroracloud]

Glad I'm not the only one! I think I've overall enjoyed the season more than you've done - apart from Orphan 55 and this episode they've generally come to the side of "I liked it" for me - but on the other hand the majority of them haven't come anywhere to the heights of the best parts of it. But yeah, this one I just couldn't get excited about or care about. At something like 12 minutes before the episode ended I actually found myself looking at how much there still was left because I was getting bored! That's not supposed to be happening at that part of the story. And technically there was danger and conflict aplenty, but I just wasn't invested in it, not even for the characters we know.

And I also wonder how this fits with all the future of humanity timelines. Why do they always have to make it "the last of humankind" or something like that? Wouldn't it be tragic enough if some human colony somewhere had been all but destroyed by the Cybermen? Why does it have to be "the last seven humans in the whole galaxy". (Also, my pet peeve of sci-fi writers never realizing how huge galaxies are. Our galaxy is something like 100,000 light years across, off the top of my head - that means light takes 100,000 years to get from one end to the other. It sounds pretty ridiculous to me to say anything about what's going on in a whole galaxy.)

Doctor Who

[oldtoadwoman]

I actually really liked it. I just hated it being a two-parter (which I suspected it would be as the second-to-last episode of the season).

I'm shipping Graham with the chick in this episode. (Which means I fear there's a high chance that she at least will die. But I'll hold onto my fantasy for a few more days that Graham goes off to live happily-ever-after with someone.) Agreed though; it was super obvious it was going to be a whole ship of Cybermen so there was no shock factor to that reveal.

Old-school Cybermen always felt a bit silly to me, partly because the costuming meant they looked like they were just made out of tinfoil so they didn't feel terribly threatening. The current version has weight to it so they actually look dangerous. (Also the flying head CyberDrones are creepy.)

I'm confused by one thing you said though. Yaz and Graham *didn't* take the ship to the humans' escape route. They even said they thought it was a bad idea. (In fact, the scenario where I can see companions dying is if the last episode Yaz and Graham fly the ship into a sun or something.)

I'm going with the Timeless Child theory to explain Brendan. Note that Brendan's father and the policemen don't seem to age. (I had to go back through the episode, because I didn't realize it at first, but the policeman is the same actor all the way through. I thought it was different people at first.) My first thought was that the baby was an alien. My friend was making Clark Kent/Superman jokes at that point, which seemed to fit with him surviving the fall unscathed. But, the weird ending, that made me next think that it was some kind of simulation. The Master talked about the Timeless Child being something secret that the Time Lords made them forget… what if this connects to that ritual of making tiny Time Tots look into the abyss? What if they live whole lives while looking into the "Untempered Schism" (I had to look that up because I'd forgotten the name)? Brendan could actually be the Master (or the Doctor or somehow both).

Re: Doctor Who

[auroracloud]

I like two-parters. They can fit in more story and go into things in more depths, just like in Classic Who serials. It's also nice to vary the rhythm of the season a bit that way. Sure, it's frustrating to wait for a week to find out what happens, but I still like it that they didn't stick to last series' trend of having stand-alone only. And it helps finales feel more epic when the story needs two episodes to be tackled.

I'm confused by one thing you said though. Yaz and Graham *didn't* take the ship to the humans' escape route. They even said they thought it was a bad idea. (In fact, the scenario where I can see companions dying is if the last episode Yaz and Graham fly the ship into a sun or something.)

Sorry, but no, that's not how it went. I checked those scenes again just to make sure I hadn't misunderstood something, but it didn't change my understanding of the events. Sure, Graham and Ravio start by objecting to the idea of taking the Cybermen to the border/escape route. But then Yaz asks, what are their options, give up the ship or let the Cybermen loose on some planet. And then she gives her little speech about how they're going to find the Doctor and defeat the Cybermen, and nobody argues with her, and there's no alternate plan formed. Even if nobody explicitly says at that point "Yes, we are still going to Ko Sharmus even though the ship is filled with Cybermen" that's still the outcome of the scene.

And later on, when they're almost done traveling ("coming out of the vortex" says one of the guest characters, I forget his name - don't know if it has something to do with the time vortex or just some warp drive type of thing), Yaz says she needs to contact the Doctor to warn them "that we're coming in". When she does contact the Doctor, she doesn't have time to specifically say that they're about to arrive there, because then the Doctor gets distracted by Gallifrey appearing, Graham & Yaz & co are distracted by the Cybermen bursting in, and then the Master appears and the episode ends. I don't see how we're supposed to parse the sequence of events as meaning anything other than Yaz & co continuing the journey towards the border / Ko Sharmus in the ship full of Cybermen. The objection was raised, yes, but it wasn't followed through.

And I do understand Yaz thinking of their survival at that point more than about whether the Cybermen pose a greater danger at the portal than they would elsewhere, but at the same time, I would have liked the others to at least argue the point a bit more before they agreed, or Yaz to try to come up with a way to outsmart the Cybermen before the ship arrives. But I suppose there wouldn't have been time in the script for the latter.

I do like the modern Cybermen designs, and Ashad is particularly freaky, I have a hard time even looking at him because it all just looks so brutal, it's very effective. I don't know why I didn't connect with the story more, though, I wish I had. I hope that the Master will bring the additional element that makes it come together for me, in the finale.

Re: Doctor Who

[oldtoadwoman]

Yeah, that bit was totally unclear. They agree it's a terrible idea but do it anyway?