A handful of fannish notes.

[auroracloud]

Season 12 of Doctor Who will only start airing in Finland on January 9th; we'll get both parts 1 and 2 of Spyfall on that day. I assume after that we'll get the episodes very soon after the UK premiere as we did last year, but I'm not going to see Spyfall part 1 before the 9th. If you think that before that date, you might not manage to avoid posting spoilers without cut-tag, posting spoilery icons or other spoilery stuff that can't be cut, would you please let me know e.g. in comments to this post? I can make myself a spoiler-free filter to read until then. I'm not the sort of person who minds every single spoiler (like, I don't know, generic promotional pictures of the TARDIS team or other people we've already known will be in the episode; basically I've seen the trailers that were published before the first episode aired), but I'd rather not learn big plot details or other major stuff before the first time I see it for myself.

Mind you, I've probably seen one major spoiler (I say probably because I very quickly looked away and didn't exactly dig into it to make sure) and I'll whine about that when I know for sure if it's what I thought it was. But at least I'd rather not get any more, or have that one confirmed before I see the episode. (For the record, I didn't see the possible-spoiler on DW/LJ. So far nobody here has spilled anything that was a problem but it's pretty hard to avoid the entire internet for a week.)

In other fannish matters, I'm sort of planning to take part in snowflake_challenge but I've only begun to write the introduction and am not finished yet. I figure this journal could use a general public intro post anyway, so the timing is good, I've just been tired and not good at getting things done. It's not that easy to write one, especially since I'm always wordy. I don't intend to respond to every challenge, but I'm trying to do a few that inspire me, at least.

In podcast dramas, I started listening to EOS10 today, after hearing a lot of recommendations for it. If there are those among my friends/readers who are further into it - for how long does it continue to focus so heavily on alcoholism and addiction? I listened to the first two episodes, and for fairly short episodes they focused a lot onthat subject, and it's a topic I don't enjoy. I live in a country that has a... very problematic attitude towards alcohol as a culture, and where most of the art and entertainment features drunkenness and alcoholism, while I'm a person who doesn't drink a lot, and doesn't particularly enjoy getting drunk... look, it didn't exactly make social life easy when I was younger. I'm also just plain sick of the topic by now. I don't mind it in moderate amounts (say, the way it's handled in The Bright Sessions), but this feels like much. The podcast sounds well made and I'm always interested in space stories, so I'm willing to power through if it'll soon switch to other topics, but I'd like to know for how long I have to listen to guys talking about alcoholism, because I've kinda done a lot of that just through being born in Finland.

(And I realize alcoholism is a serious mental health problem in itself and there are undoubtedly people who really benefit from it being handled in fiction. It's just that, well, I explained it above already, I've got my reasons.)

To end on a positive note, I think I've finally got my library books problem under control. Not though speed-reading everything at once, but 1) I was able to renew Realm of Ash so I'm no longer in a hurry, 2) I'm just going to buy an ebook of The Priory of the Orange Tree and read it leisurely, and it's easier to hold up that way given it has about 800 pages, and 3) I read a bit of Middlegame and poked around reviews and decided that it's too dark for me at this point, so I returned it to the library. Now I'm just going to read my currently ongoing books without stressing about deadlines for finishing each, and after that I'll take care not to place so many holds anymore.

Comments

[smallhobbit]

I'm dipping into snowflake_challenge in that so far I've done an Intro post - like you one was needed, and not done the second challenge.

Are Finnish libraries the same as ours, where you reserve a number of different books at different times and they all arrive at once?

[auroracloud]

I've been thinking for at least months that I need to do an intro post, so hopefully I'll have it done soon. And I'm not doing the second challenge, I'm just not in the mood for reviewing my fannish history.

Are Finnish libraries the same as ours, where you reserve a number of different books at different times and they all arrive at once?

Yeeeees. I learned that the hard way this autumn/winter. I haven't often been quite in that situation because I don't usually read a lot of new books, so most of the things I put on hold are just a few weeks or days from arriving to me, and so I can be sensible about it (at least a little). But it seems that if you reserve lots of things with different length waiting lists, they'll still all arrive at the same time, and there are only so many days and hours you can fit into a month.

avoid YouTube!

[oldtoadwoman]

I noticed that the official Doctor Who channel on YouTube has already posted some behind-the-scenes stuff that would be spoilery. (They didn't put it up until shortly after the episode aired so I think they are putting the effort in to avoid spoilers before the UK airdate, but after that, stuff is fair game.)

Re: avoid YouTube!

[auroracloud]

Well yes, that would be where I ran into stuff I didn't want to see, and please don't tell me anything else so I won't know for sure what is indeed a spoiler. So alas, this particular warning comes too late, but thanks.

It's difficult for me to avoid YouTube entirely, because I do a lot of yoga and ballet workout videos there to help keep myself in shape (with low income and some agoraphobia, it's good to have access to guided workouts from home for free), and honestly I didn't realize they would think everything is fair game immediately after the UK air date. I mean, even if they don't give a shit about non-British viewers (which I concede is likely as we're talking about the UK) I'm sure even there not everyone watches things directly when they air, not these days. One could be a fan and still not have seen it, say, 24 hours after. It's not like I'm going to watch any videos they post after the episode has aired, but, well, that doesn't always help.

But yeah, for now I'm trying to go straight into particular videos/channels via browser history or open tabs so that I won't see the front page again. I just wish I'd known that two days ago.

Re: avoid YouTube!

[oldtoadwoman]

My worst curse-you-Internet! spoiling happened when I was watching season four of a show with an unusual character name and I wanted to check how it was spelled. (I don't even remember why it seemed important at the time, but I realized I wasn't sure if how I thought her name was spelled was correct or not.) I started to type her name into Google and it pre-filled with the suggestions "is [character name] dead?", "[character name] death scene", "why did they kill [character name]?" and so on. I was so mad. I think I was only half a dozen episodes away from the end of the season. If I'd just resisted the urge to Google the spelling of a name a little longer, I would have made it through to the end unspoiled.

Re: avoid YouTube!

[auroracloud]

Ugh, spoilers by autocomplete! I feel for you. I would have had a similar thing happen with Torchwood if I hadn't been spoiled already by mentions of A Certain Event in Doctor Who fanfics. But in that case I was glad to have the forewarning.

[ysilme]

In other fannish matters, I'm sort of planning to take part in [community profile] snowflake_challenge but I've only begun to write the introduction and am not finished yet. I figure this journal could use a general public intro post anyway, so the timing is good, I've just been tired and not good at getting things done. It's not that easy to write one, especially since I'm always wordy. I don't intend to respond to every challenge, but I'm trying to do a few that inspire me, at least.
This could've been written by me! ^^

I hope the new Doctor Who season is going to be a good experience for you! And yay for figuring out how to deal with the reading issue!

[auroracloud]

Introductions are hard! Good luck for both of us. I do find the challenge a bit daunting in its volume, but at least the challenges are spaced out over a longer time period this time, so it seems more doable.

[thisbluespirit]

Ha, good luck with snowflake_challenge! I'm trying to decide whether or not to do it - I love it, but I did it last year and some of the questions are always the same.

I accidentally saw a spoiler for Spyfall but was still misdirected. However, good luck with that. The internet is terrible for avoiding spoilers. <3

[auroracloud]

Thank you! I probably will only do things that I didn't do last year or where I answer differently now. As I recall, I didn't do more than a few last year, so there's probably still plenty left. But for example I've no desire to write my fannish history, so I won't.

Good to know that surprises can still happen, hope it works out for me, too. And to be fair, I've known a lot of things in advance, because I started watching the show in 2015, and it's not like I stayed offline until I was totally caught up. But I'd like to be surprised when I can, at least!

Bah, yes, internet makes things difficult. I avoid Doctor Who websites, and my DW feed has been good so far, but it's hard to think about every single site that might spring something upon you. I remember back when I was a Harry Potter fan and the books were still coming out, I'd basically stay offline until I had read the new book (we also got them in our bookshops on the release day, and I'm a fast reader and like to immerse myself in a book, so it wasn't too hard). But these days doing so for a whole week is a bit... well, difficult.

[thisbluespirit]

Avoiding spoilers is hard! And, ha, when the Harry Potter books came out first, I was a children's librarian, so the only way I could read them unspoiled was to buy a copy on the day and read it that weekend so I would be able to talk to children again on Monday! Never mind online, it was my job offline to know already!! (I couldn't borrow a library copy; they were all on order to people.) So we spent Friday secretly smuggling illicit books about the borough and hiding them in cupboards for the morning, and then Sat morning ringing children up and telling them the new Harry Potter was in for them. And then go home, buy it from Tesco or wherever and do a lot of reading. It was a lot of fun!! (The last few must all have been released on a Saturday; probably very wise, all considered.)

Anyway, good luck on both counts.

[auroracloud]

Oh dear, that sounds like a very complicated position to be in! A children's librarian is not an easy job to have at the time. I'm so glad that I was at the uni back then and had flexible schedules, so I could just devote my time to finishing the book right away.

Heh, it's a good thing indeed they didn't release those last few bricks on a weekday! :-D

[thisbluespirit]

Oh, it was great! So much excitement over the books! :-D

And I suppose they must have taken mercy on the schools, timing it for a Saturday so the children wouldn't be distracted, lol.

[ellieet]

I only just caught up on E1 today and it was...interesting. I hope you like it. Jodie has definitely been a new kind of Doctor. I kind of wish for more background, familiar Whoish stuff like Unit and Torchwood getting more mentions/making more appearances and monsters like the Weeping Angels and Ice Warriors making a return, just to put the audience on more familiar ground. I love Jodie as the Doctor but sometimes the show just doesn't feel like Doctor Who. Am I a bad fan for thinking that, I wonder?

[auroracloud]

No, don't worry about it, you're not any kind of a bad fan just by having opinions of your own! With almost 15 years of New Who and 56 years of Doctor Who altogether, I think most fans have one or two or a few phases in the show's history that don't work for them. If it's not your thing, it's not, and you don't need to feel bad about it. Maybe it'll grow into your thing at some point, maybe it won't, but either way your opinion is valid. I know there's been a lot of controversy over Thirteen's era because of the entitled dudebros who can't stand to have a woman play the Doctor just because she's a woman, but there are other reasons why someone might not find these seasons to their liking, and that is entirely valid.

And hey, I rather can't stand most of the Third Doctor era, and in a bad mood am likely to say it's not even proper Doctor Who for me because it doesn't have any of the things I enjoy about the show (well, at least when a certain Miss Grant is the companion - I like what I've seen of Liz Shaw, and I love Sarah Jane with Four, so I'll probably be more kindly disposed towards their years if/when I watch them in full). And for many people, that era is their childhood nostalgia Who / something they've pretty much grown up with. I refuse to think my opinion of that era makes me a bad fan, so no reason why your opinion of another era would make you a bad fan either!

[ellieet]

I know there's been a lot of controversy over Thirteen's era because of the entitled dudebros who can't stand to have a woman play the Doctor just because she's a woman

Ha, I've met some of those dudebros. My previous job brought me into contact with a lot of Doctor Who fans and one of them - in front of his wife! - looked me dead in the eye and told me it was terrible they were making the Doctor a woman. Within moments of Jodie being announced, I had people on facebook saying that Doctor Who was 'ruined.' I also met a lot of pretentious and unbearable cosplayers.

I love Jodie, and she is the Doctor, but the show has trouble convincing me that I'm watching Doctor Who sometimes, because it's so far removed from its predecessors in the approach. It's just so different; the second part of Spyfall, in fact, was the first time I got a Whoish feeling again.

I have to laugh at myself, though, because I started watching Doctor Who thirteen years ago; I took in most of the Tenth Doctor's era but fell completely in love with Eleven. And yet, due to Good Omens, I'm suddenly magically in love with Ten, and on a Tennant high. :D I prefer him in Series 3-onwards as I cannot stand Rose (no offense if she's a favourite) and his constant pining over her even when she wasn't present was my least favourite thing about that era, and what put me off in the first place - plus, I'm still sore over how my girl Martha Jones was treated. It's quite incredible to feel your age by how many Doctors have come and gone! Series 5 was my favourite; I remember 2010 with fondness as that was the year of both the Eleventh Doctor and Sherlock and the Internet went wild with both. Good times. ^_^

[flowersforgraves]

The focus of EOS10 directs away from alcoholism but it never really disappears -- Ryan and Dr Urvidian's addiction remains semi-relevant for the first season and a half, and then there's some more stuff about relapse in the most recent season, but most of the time there's not a focus on it. Feel free to message if you want more details!

[auroracloud]

Thank you for the information! I guess I'll try one episode at a time and see how it feels. If it still feels too much after a couple of episodes, I'll probably focus on other podcasts instead, because following that plot line for a season and a half may be rather too heavy for me. As I said, I don't mind it when it's just a part of things, but a heavy focus on it is... not the best thing for me. Especially when it's with male characters, because you can bet that the way it's ubiquitous in Finnish culture and media is heavily focused on cis male voices only.

[justphoenix]

Bummer about having to wait a week for S12.

I'm debating if I want to do Snowflake Challenge. It might be nice to have an excuse to talk about fandom stuff, and I appreciate it's low-key. OTOH, does it matter if I'm going to lock all the entries anyway? IDK.

[nostalgia]

You should filter me out, I'm not sure how long it'll be before I use a spoilery icon or something. Or I might say something by accident outside a cut tag D: I'm never sure how long is long enough for things like spoilers. I try to avoid spoiling it for people but apparently I am odd, because I knew the endings for Avengers and Star Wars from Twitter the day after they came out.

I got spoilered for El Ministerio del Tiempo when I went looking for pics of the main cast in S1, but I can't really blame anyone cos it was a few years ago now and I should have known better. But I did manage to avoid one major spoiler for it until it actually happened, and it was shocking I had to google to see if was forever.

[auroracloud]

Well, I've been meaning for a while to make a reading filter that filters out some of the more heavy-traffic communities and such for the ease of browsing, so for now I put you off that filter as well, and I'll try to use it to read until I've seen the newest episodes. That should work.

It's hard to say any hard and fast rules about how long spoilers remain spoilers, because it varies depending on the media, but most of the time I'd give a few weeks for everyone to get caught up on things, because fandom is international these days and not everyone gets everything at the same time. And also because people have lives, and e.g. with films you can't expect everyone to flock to see a film on the premiere day. But it's also a fact that not everyone takes care to avoid spoilers, so using the internet after something has come out always has a bit of a risk, and I'm aware of that. I'm not super spoiler-phobic, but for me the excitement of experiencing a story for the first time without knowing things in advance is a part of the enjoyment, so I prefer to be ignorant of the major plot points, twists, character reveals etc. if possible. I've definitely gotten myself spoiled for some shows by looking for fanfic or picture or meta before I was caught up, but then I know I'm taking a risk, and have decided I don't mind too much.

spoilings by commercial media

[oldtoadwoman]

I'm just extra grumpy about commercial companies like YouTube and Google and various news sites spoiling popular things. You can so easily stumble across headlines and photographs on major news sites that spoil movie details the same day the film hits the theaters.