Vincent and the Doctor

[auroracloud]

I just want to say that Vincent and the Doctor is one of the best Doctor Who episodes I've seen, and unquestionably one of the most moving emotional ones. The way they handled the character and life of Vincent Van Gogh, the way they handed depression, mental illness, fragility and creativity and beauty of the world, was something unbelievably touching. It got into some really powerful place in me and did something so right.

Also, I thought it made the story even more powerful that the monster mostly couldn't be seen. And not only because of not needing to worry about bad CGI, but also because there was something really moving about that in itself. And I suppose it makes it even more powerful in handling the mental illness/depression, and on the other hand the ability of art to make you see more things in the world, that really were the themes of the episode.

And one of the final comments of the Doctor - that life is a pile of good stuff and bad stuff, and the good stuff doesn't always soften the bad but the bad stuff also doesn't spoil the good - that was something a lot of us need to hear. I definitely needed it now. (Not getting deeper into that because public post.)

The Eleventh Doctor is one of the best antidepressants I've come across.

Can't do more detailed commentary now, not quite done crying. But it's a good sort of crying, mostly.

Also, loved the sunflowers.

Comments

[elisi]

♥ ♥ ♥

And here is one of the best reaction posts to it (although maybe save it for when you're not crying anymore). It does have a warning on it though.

Seriously though, sometimes I remember that this episode exists, and that makes me happier.

[auroracloud.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's wonderful to have something like this on TV. Popular stories so rarely deal with something like this in such a way, and it's wonderfully merciful about the fact that everything's not always going to be all right but that doesn't cancel out what's beautiful.

I skimmed that post, but I'll read it properly when I'm in the right mainframe for not starting to cry again or something, yeah. Thanks for the link. :-)

[elisi]

Like I said elsewhere - am jealous that you get to watch it all for the first time...

[auroracloud.livejournal.com]

I can understand what you mean! I'm a big rewatcher, but there is something particular about the magic of discovering something for the first time. And Eleven is doing something particularly magical to me; I'll try to be able to put words into it some time, but something very particular has been clicking in me when watching his episodes.

And this one came just the right time for me.

(Almost none of my local friends who like Doctor Who care at all for Eleven or any Moffat era stuff. So glad that I can find people here who like them!)

[elisi]

And Eleven is doing something particularly magical to me; I'll try to be able to put words into it some time, but something very particular has been clicking in me when watching his episodes.
I have never been able to explain it either, beyond he is *my* Doctor. But there is something about him. Something truly magical.

So glad that I can find people here who like them!
I have endless meta/fic/time to chat. <3

[auroracloud.livejournal.com]

Every Doctor I've seen so far does something very special to me and gives me their own angle to the story that I love, but there is something about Eleven I've definitely been missing - that mad dash of adventure and at the same time the willingness to learn from his mistakes and sort of... kindness and forgiveness. I don't know, maybe it's unexplainable, and I can't name a favourite Doctor right now, but I do know Eleven's exactly the one I need in my life right now. <3 Maybe I'll get more articulate as I progress with my watching.

I have endless meta/fic/time to chat. <3

And I'm sure I'll be taking advantage of that! To the extent I have energy, anyhow - at the moment it's sporadic, but the interest is there and growing. :-)

[elisi]

Well I've never been able to quite articulate what makes Eleven so very special for me, so don't worry. If he's what you need now, then that's the most important thing!

And I'm sure I'll be taking advantage of that! To the extent I have energy, anyhow - at the moment it's sporadic, but the interest is there and growing. :-)
Yeah, it's not going anywhere, so whenever you feel like it. :)

[trobadora]

It's an amazing episode, yes! I love it to pieces.

[auroracloud.livejournal.com]

I've enjoyed all of S5 so far, but this was one of the best things ever. And something so unique. I'd heard good things about this episode, and now I truly see why.

[trobadora]

Yeah, it's definitely exceptional. It took me longer than this to truly warm up to the Eleventh Doctor, but that doesn't even matter, the episode is just that amazing.

[auroracloud.livejournal.com]

For some reason, Eleven clicked for me pretty early in the series already - not right away, but pretty early in the first few episodes. I haven't been able to put my finger on exactly why, but I'll get there. Maybe I also need someone like him right now, and that helps. It took me a while to get over how young he looks, but as the series progresses, he's been able to give more and more the impression of much more age behind him than he looks like.

[trobadora]

Yeah, you can never tell how long it'll take. Ten took me until The Girl in the Fireplace; Eleven took me until The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People; Twelve clicked instantly, in his very first scene ...

I'm happy you're enjoying Eleven so far!

[auroracloud.livejournal.com]

Eleven took me until The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People;

I'm curious to see that one! All the more so because then I can properly read your Public Call fic. :-)

For me Ten was a progress of sorts. I liked him right away in Christmas Invasion, but the portrayal was still far from nuanced. Further into S2 I started getting more into the character when there started being depth and darkness and interaction with different characters. I believe I think of "my" Ten from S3 onwards, though; the character starts to become really rich then with all his issues and all. It's actually interesting that I started liking him more when I started hating him more. :-D S2 had its wonderful moments, but his relationship with Rose was too nice and uncomplicated to twist deep into me the way S3 did. And then in S4, his companionship with Donna is pure brilliance.

[trobadora]

I actually disliked him a lot in The Christmas Invasion, mainly for his treatment of Harriet Jones. New Earth I was indifferent about; in Tooth and Claw I found him and Rose and their giggling extremely unlikeable again. School Reunion won me over a bit - it's a great episode, even moreso in retrospect - and then there was The Girl in the Fireplace, and suddenly he actually was the Doctor for me. I think I needed to see him without Rose to actually get there - their dynamic was so offputting for me. So yeah, I'm with you on liking Ten much more from s3 on!

[auroracloud.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I hated his treatment of Harriet Jones, too, but I liked his energy in the special. It annoys me he's never properly called out for his treatment of Harriet, as though it's entirely okay. I'd like to see Jack give him a mouthful for that - hmm, hey, fic idea!

And the first couple of episodes of the series proper weren't that great, and I agree he and Rose were really annoying in Tooth and Claw. School Reunion and The Girl in the Fireplace were definitely the first where he got to shine and be more interesting. But my favourite parts with him start only after he's lost Rose. I don't entirely dislike their dynamic - Tennant and Piper have some kind of energetic chemistry that I personally warmed to, but the problem is that it becomes so romantic and so worshipful on both sides and this "exclusive mutual appreciation society" that some review mentioned, and they're basically really annoying towards every single other person. The first time around I was so sorry that Jack wasn't around in S2, because I'd have liked to see him, Rose and Ten together, but after a bit more distance, I'm glad I didn't have to watch him get sidelined for that two-person Mutual Adoration Society.

And though I like Rose, I don't entirely get why so many people find her the best companion ever. She has a great arc in S1, but after that her story and actions revolve so totally around the Doctor and it seems like for her, there can be no life without him, and she's only ever badass for him, not for any other reason. People blame Martha for being too clingy about the Doctor, but heck, in the end she walks the Earth through a catastrophic year on her own, and after that has the strength to walk away and live a life of her own, honouring what she has learned from in but not getting stuck on him forever. And Donna's dynamic with Ten is just the best - they're best friends, with no romantic attachment for once, and she's initially met him at one of his worst moments, and sees him for who he is and loves him (as a friend) anyway, sticking by him loyally while having the guts to challenge him and not put up with his crap. She's awesome.

Aaand I could go into Jack's relationship with the Doctor, of course, but that needs a whole post of it's own. I tried, but the sentences wouldn't come out sensibly now. :-)

[trobadora]

It annoys me he's never properly called out for his treatment of Harriet, as though it's entirely okay. I'd like to see Jack give him a mouthful for that - hmm, hey, fic idea!

I like the way you think. :D

I don't understand the "Rose is the greatest" people either, though I think a lot of them came to Doctor Who with her. First companion and all that? I don't know. There were a lot of Rose/Ten shippers around, anyway, and so many of them just couldn't allow for the Doctor to care as much for anyone else, ever, in all his lives. It turned really ugly when Rose left. (

(I wonder if Jack's presence could have mitigated some of the worst excesses of the Ten-and-Rose dynamic. I don't think they could have stayed in that bubble with someone there to force them out of it ... Either that, or it would have been a million times more unbearable; you're right about that. But Rose and Jack had a good dynamic themselves, so ...)

Personally I never cared much about her; she was a
But I intensely disliked her giggly dynamic with Ten, and I hated the way she was constantly intruding on Martha's and Donna's tenure. I agree, Donna's dynamic with Ten was the best.

Aaand I could go into Jack's relationship with the Doctor, of course, but that needs a whole post of it's own.

I'm all in favour! :D

[auroracloud.livejournal.com]

Rose was the first Companion for me, too, yet she didn't remain my favourite though I liked her. But then, I'm not one of those people who imprint on the first thing they saw and think that must stay. I liked her well enough - she did some stupid stuff, but I liked her thirst to see the world and the way she in the first series cared about the people she met (in S2 that tended to be replaced by "what, the Doctor is talking to another woman? How horrible!"). And Billie had this shiny energy I enjoyed. But both Rose fans and the show itself raise her into something more amazing than she ever really was, it bugs me. RTD massively plays favourites when it comes to her, and I'm contrary enough that it makes me like her much less. *sighs* And yes, I hate the way she intruded on Martha and Donna's seasons. Especially Martha; the Doctor didn't even accept her as a full companion before almost halfway through the series, and Martha had to give herself the "I'm not second best" talk because the Doctor never would. All of her series was overshadowed by the fact that she wasn't Rose, and I hate it that it colours many fans' reactions to her as well. Though I sometimes am sorry I wasn't in the fandom when all those series were coming out the first time, on the other hand I'm massively glad to have been spared the Rose vs. Martha wars.

At least the Doctor properly appreciated Donna, but her story got a bit too sidetracked at times by the constant references to Rose returning - especially considering Rose didn't do that much special when she got there, in the end.

It is an interesting question whether Jack would have made the Ten/Rose dynamic better. He probably would have told the Doctor off for Harriet, and I'm pretty sure he'd have said something to them in Tooth and Claw - no matter how much he may mess around at times, he's a good soldier when things really have to get done, and I doubt he'd have shirked back from telling them to behave. And he's not someone who lets himself be ignored, so... either he'd have burst their bubble a bit, or he'd have gotten fed up and... left? I don't know?

It would be tempting to write an AU of S2 with Jack around; I've read a few of those in the past, but they tended to have too sunny an interpretation of Ten and his dynamic with Rose for my liking, so sometimes I'm tempted by the idea of writing my own. And Rose might, on the other hand, soften Ten's reaction to Jack's "wrongness". Possibly.

I definitely do want to do a Jack/Doctor relationship post some day, but I've no idea how long it will take me. I have too many thoughts. :-D

[http://users.livejournal.com/_profiterole_/]

This episode really stayed with me in the long term. <3

[auroracloud.livejournal.com]

It is one of those that do, isn't it?

[ysilme]

*lots of warm hugs*

[auroracloud.livejournal.com]

*big hugs back* But it really helped, I think I watched it exactly when it needed to. TV can make the world better, sometimes.

[verdande-mi.livejournal.com]

Vincent and the Doctor ❤ One of my absolute favourite episodes and one I go back to again and again. It’s so beautiful and touching and it always gets to me. Such wonderful words about the monster being invisible mirroring mental illness, I hadn’t thought of that, but that’s very true.

“Life is a pile of good stuff and bad stuff, and the good stuff doesn't always soften the bad but the bad stuff also doesn't spoil the good” is all kinds of wonderful.

[auroracloud.livejournal.com]

I can see myself going back to this one again and again, too. I'd heard a lot about it before I even watched it - nothing big, just it kept being mentioned as a really amazing episode, and now I see why. I think the invisibility of the monster mirroring mental illness partly struck me only when I was trying to put my thoughts into words, but already during the episode I was like "he keeps seeing and feeling things other people do... that's artist on the one hand, and mentally ill people on the other, and there's something so brilliant about this".

“Life is a pile of good stuff and bad stuff, and the good stuff doesn't always soften the bad but the bad stuff also doesn't spoil the good” is all kinds of wonderful.

Eleven has some wonderful life lessons, doesn't he?

Just watched the finale, by the way. "We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one" *sigh*

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

That is one of my all time favorite episodes (pretty much everyone i know loved it)

[auroracloud.livejournal.com]

Even people who otherwise hate the Moffat era have praised this one all over, so it's definitely something special!

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Agreed